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The Five-Fold Podcast
Five-Fold ministry for today. In this podcast we will attempt to determine biblical timelines as they correlate with current events. We will examine the offices of the Five-Fold ministry and gain biblical direction for the world today.
The Five-Fold Podcast
Exploring Pastoral Authority: Balancing Leadership and Biblical Responsibilities
Can pastors really claim authority over their congregations, or is their role more nuanced than we often consider? Discover the complexities of church leadership as we dissect a controversial video that challenges traditional views on pastoral authority. Tune in to hear why we believe pastors should neither dominate their flock nor shirk their biblical responsibilities of shepherding, teaching, and protecting their church communities. We explore key scriptural references and dive into the essence of genuine pastoral care, highlighting the delicate balance of leading with conviction under God's ultimate authority.
Moreover, we'll discuss the crucial need for spiritual conviction in ministry, confronting the troubling trend of pastors prioritizing comfort over holiness. Drawing from Paul Washer's critiques and Paul's instructions to the elders in Ephesus, we emphasize the importance of the five-fold ministry—apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers—in building a robust church body. Lastly, learn about our network, "Of God and Men," and how podcasting can be a powerful tool in spreading the hope of Jesus Christ. Join us on the Five-Fold Podcast for an enlightening conversation about the sacred responsibilities of church leaders and the transformative power of faith-driven leadership.
What is happening everybody. Welcome to tonight's episode of the Five-Fold Podcast. I'm your host, Michael Weedman. I'm looking forward to tonight. We're gonna have a discussion tonight. Let's talk about pastors for a minute. Let's talk about church leadership for a minute. Our responsibility and our calling Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back. Hey, good evening and welcome to this episode of the Five Fold Podcast. I'm your host, Michael Weedman, and I would like to say thank you for taking the time and joining us tonight on the podcast.
Michael Weedman:The Five-Fold Podcast focuses on the five-fold ministry and the importance of that ministry in today's society. We believe that there is still a need for apostles, for prophets, for pastors, for teachers, for evangelists. They haven't ceased. There's still an operation today and necessary for the success of today's church. So join with us as we dive into this episode of the Five Fold Podcast and welcome back everybody. I'm glad you're here.
Michael Weedman:Tonight. We're going to have a little bit of a discussion and before we get into the discussion I'm going to show you a video that prompted this discussion and then we're going to talk about this. Okay, so y'all know I like to look through some of these church folk videos and I like to kind of pick them apart a little bit and some of them I agree with some stuff, some of them I don't agree, some of them I halfway agree. This is one of those videos where there's the first statement he makes I agree with and I'll explain that. But after that first statement, everything else is just nonsense. So let's, let's look at this video together and let's talk about it.
Speaker 2:Pastors have no authority over you.
Michael Weedman:Okay, so there's the one I agree with. After this not so much.
Speaker 2:Why do you think they do? It's not because of the Bible. When we go to Scripture and we look at the New Testament epistles, we only see the word pastor once in ephesians, chapter 4. Do we see any list of qualifications? No, yes. Do we see any list of duties? No. Do we see any authority? No, we think this because of what happened during the reformation. Martin luther and john calvin created a king in the church and named them pastor Because it's old. For the past 500 years we've been practicing it. We think it's true, but according to the Bible, jesus said it will not be like this among you, as in nobody will have any top-down authority in the body of Christ. He said the Gentiles lord over one another. This way, you will not. Nobody has authority over you. You're free. You get to be yourself and enjoy life in Christ.
Michael Weedman:All right. So let's talk about this for a minute. And again I want to say that I personally agree with the first statement that he makes, that pastors don't have authority over you. Now listen to me when I say this, because I know I just made a lot of people mad, but listen to what I'm saying when I say this. The sense that he's talking as in one being a Lord over somebody else, absolutely God did not, and I understand.
Michael Weedman:I pastor a church here in Sparta. I am the pastor of the Pentecostals of Sparta and I'm blessed to be in that position. I'm blessed to have the people in the church that respect me and honor me as their pastor. But I am a Lord over nobody. You want to know what my job is. My job is to shepherd the flock of God. My job is to be the guard, to preach the word to these people here in this church, to preach the truth, to make sure that no wolves come in and steal the flock, to make sure that no bears come in and destroy the flock. That is my job, my obligation as a pastor. Now he said pastors have no authority over you. That's partially true, and again, in the sense that he said, authority in the sense of somebody lording over someone else. Absolutely, god did not call men to be lords over anybody else. God did not make us kings over anybody else. However and this is a big however we have a responsibility to God. We have an obligation to God.
Michael Weedman:I want to read you the scripture out of James, chapter three and verse one. Now I want you to understand something. James uses the word master, and let me pull up my word in the Strong's Concordance here. While I'm talking to you James, chapter three, verse one. I'm going to read it really fast. James 3, verse 1. My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive greater condemnation, for in many things we offend all, if any man offend, not in word, the same is a perfect man, and also to bridle the whole body. So what James is saying? He says be not many masters. In other words, let me pull up the word in the Greek, since this is the New Testament. Sorry, I almost said Hebrew. He said be not many masters. That Greek word is diaskalos, which means an instructor, a doctor, a master or a teacher. It is the concept that he is bringing forward.
Michael Weedman:When Paul and the other apostles established churches, they set up leadership in the churches, they set up a leader. You can think of many of them in the churches. Timothy the books of 1 and 2 Timothy are written to Timothy, who was the pastor, the leader, the shepherd of the church established by Paul. The book of Ephesus you find people that elders, that Paul set up in order to govern the body of Christ, in those churches. Now, when I say govern, we have to remember this. Stop thinking it's a dictatorship. It's not a dictatorship. Churches were never meant to be dictatorships. It's a theocracy, all right, not a democracy. It's God rules, not us, not man. It's not by the people and for the people. It's by God and for God. The church was established by God and the church was established for God. And when God sets up leadership in his churches, those leaders are accountable to God.
Michael Weedman:So what James is saying in James, chapter three, in verse one, is be not many masters, don't request, don't desire. They're like don't try to be a master, don't try to be a leader, don't try to be a teacher, don't try to be a shepherd. Why? Because we receive greater condemnation. You know why there's not many. It's because people understand that there is a consequence to what happens when I step up and I say okay, god, I'm going to fulfill this role that you've called me into to be a shepherd. I'm going to fulfill this role to feed the sheep, as he told Peter feed my sheep. I'm going to fulfill this role to feed the sheep, as he told Peter feed my sheep. I'm going to fulfill this role that you've called me to do. I'm going to minister the gospel of Jesus to these people in this church. You have to understand that there is a greater condemnation upon you, that you are responsible for more. You're going to offend people. Now, if you do it right and I say that because it seems like the greatest, and I read this a pastor friend of mine in Lebanon, tennessee, put this on his Facebook and I want to read this post for you what is the greatest threat to the church? I believe Paul Washer said it best with this response pastors.
Michael Weedman:He went on to discuss the many spineless and impotent pastors who would rather people be happy than holy. At the people's expense, these pastors would condemn the parishioners to hell while padding their own pockets, and that's a paraphrase. Listen, there is a false sense of security that is given by false words of hope that are masked in comfort rather than masked in conviction. Conviction is one of them words that we don't like. Conviction is one of them things that we don't want. Conviction is one of them things that we don't want. We don't want to be accountable to anything. We don't want to be convicted by anything because that would mean that we are accountable to something.
Michael Weedman:Let me read you out of the book of Acts what Paul is speaking to the leaders, the elders that he set up in the church at Ephesus, including the pastor or the shepherd of that body. Now Paul said in Ephesians, chapter four, that God gave us apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers five-fold ministry. That's what this podcast is all about and it's amazing to me, modern day people don't really believe in apostles. That's because they misunderstand what the purpose and the office of an apostle is. Prophets are a little more accepted. Office of an apostle is Prophets are a little more accepted, but in a large variety they're not accepted because people don't believe that God still speaks to people the way that he did in, let's say, the book of Acts or any of the other books of the Word of God.
Michael Weedman:And you know, evangelists are widely accepted. You know traveling preachers right, we have them all the time, we see them all the time. And then pastors are accepted, because every church, you know, has a pastor. Well, I mean, unless you're this guy and you don't really believe there is a such thing as a pastor, because the Bible actually never uses the word, except one time in the New Testament. Actually, old Testament has it too, but the word itself, pastors, is not used, and we'll talk about that in a second. And then teachers are accepted, because we need teachers in the body. We need all five in the body, we need all five of the fivefold ministry. We need every one of those ministries in the body of Christ If the church is ever going to survive. The church is going to survive one way or another, okay, but if the church is ever going to be successful, then we have to have all of the the five-fold ministry in our congregations and in our churches. We need apostles, we need prophets, we need evangelists, we need pastors and we need teachers.
Michael Weedman:And anyways, acts, when Paul is speaking to the church at Ephesus and he's already established the leadership in the church of Ephesus he writes down in the book of Acts, chapter 20, he writes down to the elders and he gives them a little bit of instruction. And this is what I want to kind of clean off of. He said in verse 20 of chapter 20 of the book of Acts. He said Now I kept nothing that was profitable unto you but have shared or have showed you and have taught you publicly and from house to house. So in other words, he's saying this you have no excuse. I have given you everything you need to be successful. I've given you everything you need that is profitable to you. I have not withheld anything from you.
Michael Weedman:Verse 21, testifying both to the Jew and also to the Greeks repentance towards God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. And now behold, I go, bound in the spirit, unto Jerusalem, not knowing the things that shall befall me there. Save. The Holy Ghost witnesseth in every city, saying that the bonds and afflictions abide me, but none of these things move me. Here's what he's saying. He's saying look, I'm bound by the Spirit, I'm compelled by the Spirit. I have to go. I have to go to Jerusalem, I have to obey. I don't know what waits for me in Jerusalem, but you know what, whether it be the bonds or the afflictions, none of this stuff moves me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy in the ministry which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God. And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more. He's saying this is the last time you're going to see me. This is it. I'm done, I'm no longer. I'm no longer going to be coming before you in person. You'll, you'll never see my face again. Wherefore I take you to record this day that I am pure from the blood of all men.
Michael Weedman:I can honestly say Paul saying I can honestly say that every person that I've come into contact I'm clear of his blood. I have told them of Jesus. How many of us can say that? How many of us can say that every individual that we have ever come into contact with we are clean of their blood because we have told them of the gospel of Jesus? How many of us can say that? That's all I'm going to ask on that.
Michael Weedman:Verse 29, for I know this. Oh, I'm sorry I skipped one or two. Verse number 27, for I have not shunned to declare unto you the counsel of God, verse 28,. Listen, listen to this very well. Take heed, therefore, unto yourselves and to all the flock over which the Holy Ghost have made you overseers to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. For I know this that after my departure shall grievous wolves enter among you, not sparing the flock. Who is he talking to? He is talking to pastors. He is talking to leaders of the church. He is saying you need to take heed to yourself. In other words, listen to what I'm saying to yourself. In other words, listen to what I'm saying. You had better, you had better take heed and you had better take care of the flock which God, the Holy Ghost, he said, which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers.
Michael Weedman:Now I know that word is not pastor, and here's the problem. Here is the problem with getting so caught up on words that we miss the point of the scripture. The problem with that is that, yes, the word pastor, the Greek word for pastor, is only used one time in the New Testament. However, the concept of the pastor, the overseer, the shepherd, is used multiple times throughout the scripture, and this is one of those instances where Paul is speaking to the church, the leaders I'm sorry, not the church, but the leaders of Ephesus. And he's saying look, listen to what I'm saying. You have been made an overseer, and that word for overseer is episkopos. I'm not Greek all right, it's all Greek to me, but what it means is a superintendent, an officer in generative charge of a church, a Christian officer in Ingenitive charge of a church, a bishop or an overseer.
Michael Weedman:Now, there's a word we're used to, right, we're used to in today's society hearing the word bishop, hearing the title bishop, and we're okay with that, because you know, after all, one of the things this guy said in his video that I shared at the beginning of this episode is there's no outline of their job duties, and there's no, there's no. What's the word I'm looking for? What? What's the word he used? Qualifications. That's what I'm looking for. There's no, there's no list of qualifications for the pastor.
Michael Weedman:And again, this is the problem when you get so caught up on a word like pastor, rather than the concept of what God is saying, what the word, what the scripture is saying, sure, of what God is saying, what the word, what the scripture is saying, sure. Paul could have said God has given us some apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some overseers or bishops and some teachers, but he didn't. He used the word pastors, why? Why get so caught up in not seeing that word anywhere else that we completely disregard the order of God in the church? Now, this is a problem. This is the reason why there's so much chaos in so many churches, because there are so many people that are looking for a way out of being submitted to the order of God and that word's a cuss word to a lot of people submission. There's so many people that are. And look again, I'm not saying that that pastor is a ruler over you. He's not a ruler over you, but he is in charge of seeing that the church is run according to the will of God. That is our obligation as pastors and, at the end of the day, when God judges our church, when God judges our people, the people that are in the church that we pastor, he's going to lay that blood on our hand. Did you tell them the truth? Did you preach the truth to them? Did you oversee them the way that God told you to oversee them? Did you do it? Is it because you had an obligation? You had a job?
Michael Weedman:Israel there's no doubt that Israel had a problem with following idolatry. They would be good for a while, they would be faithful to God, and then they would fall into a season of idolatry. They would fall into a time where they would just, they would follow anything, they would go anywhere. You know it was. It was like they had no control over themselves. Over and over again, they would backslide, over and over again.
Michael Weedman:I want to. I want to read you out of the book of Jeremiah. We all know Jeremiah, but I want to read you something he says to a backslidden Israel. This is what he says in Jeremiah, chapter 3 and verse 11. And the Lord said unto me, the backsliding Israel had justified herself more than treacherous Judah. There's something All right, paul said, all things are lawful, but not all things are expedient. And here's the thing that I want you to understand I can justify everything that I do, but it doesn't mean it's right. That's just a thought for you.
Michael Weedman:Verse 12, go and proclaim these words towards the north and say return thou, backsliding Israel, saith the Lord, and I will not cause mine anger to fall upon you, for I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not keep anger forever. Only acknowledge thine iniquities that thou has transgressed against the Lord, thy God, and has scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed my voice. Saith the Lord, turn back, o backsliding Israel, backsliding children. I'm sorry, saith the Lord, for I am married unto you and I will take you, one of a city and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion and I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding. And it shall come to pass when you be multiplied and increased in the land. In those days, saith the Lord, they shall say no more the ark of the increased in the land. In those days, saith the Lord, they shall say no more the ark of the covenant of the Lord. Neither shall it come to mind, neither shall they remember it, neither shall they visit it, neither shall they be done anymore. Now listen to me.
Michael Weedman:Jeremiah's prophesying of a time when the ark of the covenant would not be there. That's happened. Jeremiah's prophesying of a time when the backslidden children of Israel needed to be called back. Again, they're backslidden at the moment. He's prophesying this, but they need to be called back and he says turn, backsliding children, turn, saith the Lord, I'm married unto you. He says I will give you. I'm gonna call you one from a house, I'm going to call you two from a family. I'm going to call you and I will bring you to Zion.
Michael Weedman:Zion is the church, zion is the church. The Bible says he loves the gates of Zion more than the children of Israel. Listen, I'm not saying Lord, don't tell me, don't accuse me of being one of those Catholic guys who preaches the replacement theory where we've replaced Israel. No, israel is the chosen people of God, israel are I guess I should get my grammar right the people of Israel are still the chosen people of God, but the church is the catalyst in which he is using right now to bring his spirit into this world, not the people of Israel, because they have forsaken and neglected the spirit of God. The Bible says lively stones have I given, and that's what we are the Gentiles, the people, the church, zion. So he says I'll bring you one of a city, two of a family, and I'll bring you design. And what does he say he's going to do in the church? He says I'm going to give you, I will give you pastors according to my own art.
Michael Weedman:What is their obligation. What is the obligation of the pastors that will feed you with knowledge and understanding? Pastors, listen to me and I'm going to charge you before I let go. Pastors, listen to me. Teachers, listen to me. Leadership, listen to me. The knowledge and the understanding of your church is your responsibility.
Michael Weedman:If you have a church full of babies, you need to step back and listen to the Spirit of God and say pray, lord, how can I help them grow? And remember this you cannot bring anybody where you've never been. You cannot bring anybody where you've never been. You cannot bring anybody where you've never been. So you have to grow. You have to grow. I'm a pastor. I'm a pastor. I know what I need to do and God has put me in this position.
Michael Weedman:And sometimes you need to step back and you need to think about yourself and you need to think. Okay, maybe I should mature a little, because there's a lot of immature pastors that are frustrating the Spirit of God, when you would preach convenience over conviction. No, pastor, feed them. Call out sin. Be the voice of God in their lives. Be what God has called you to be. If you want them to succeed, you're going to have to succeed and if you want to succeed, you're going to have to get on your knees, you're going to have to pray, you're going to have to succeed. And if you want to succeed, you have to get on your knees, you have to pray, you have to study, you have to fast and you have to be what God's called you to be Pastor feed the sheep.
Michael Weedman:As darkness prevails around us, god is shining a light on the radio waves of mankind. A group of diverse individuals from all walks of life have come together to start Of God and Men, of God and Men is a central hub for content creators sharing the hope of Jesus Christ in the form of a podcast. Pastors, evangelists, counselors, school teachers and emergency personnel have all come together to bring you a network of inspiration. Join us as we face all areas of life with the gospel of Jesus Christ. Hey, I want to say thank you for joining us tonight on the Five Fold Podcast. I pray that you've been blessed and that you have enjoyed what you've heard. Join us every week as we release new content concerning the Five Fold Ministry and their place in today's church. You don't want to miss this the Five Fold Podcast. God bless.
