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The Five-Fold Podcast
Five-Fold ministry for today. In this podcast we will attempt to determine biblical timelines as they correlate with current events. We will examine the offices of the Five-Fold ministry and gain biblical direction for the world today.
The Five-Fold Podcast
(Special Guest Dr Joel Revalee) Unveiling Christianity's Mysteries: Angelic Encounters and the Dynamics of Faith and Free Will
Join me and esteemed scholar Dr. Joel Revalee on an extraordinary quest as we unravel Christianity's supernatural elements. Picture a realm where the Holy Spirit's mysterious work is as real and measurable as gravity. Through scriptural insights and analogies drawn from physics, we shed light on the unseen forces that profoundly shape our belief and the world around us. As we navigate this terrain, Dr. Revalee guides us in recognizing God's omnipresence, encouraging a deeper embrace of faith's mysteries and the tangible evidence of God's hand at play.
Venture beyond the veil as we examine the angelic influence in our daily lives and the natural world's silent testament to God's majesty. Have you ever contemplated that the stranger who offered help at just the right moment could be more than meets the eye? We discuss this intriguing possibility alongside the cultural context of angelic descriptions and the call for personal responsibility in our spiritual journeys. Through engaging dialogue, we uncover the balance between divine sovereignty and human free will, considering how our choices shape our destinies, often under the subtle guardianship of a higher power.
As we wrap up our explorative session, we enter the battlefield of modern belief systems, dissecting gender roles in Christianity and the challenges posed by Progressive Christianity. Our conversation stands firm on scriptural foundations, confronting the notions of societal reinterpretations while offering a fresh perspective on perceived biblical contradictions. The episode culminates with excitement for the Of God and Men initiative, a collective voice aiming to infuse your life with the gospel's transformative power. So, prepare to be inspired and join us weekly for more thought-provoking journeys into the heart of faith and spirituality.
Hey, good evening and welcome to this episode of the Five Fold Podcast. I'm your host, Michael Weidman, and I would like to say thank you for taking the time and joining us tonight on the podcast. The Fivefold Podcast focuses on the fivefold ministry and the importance of that ministry in today's society. We believe that there is still a need for apostles, for prophets, for pastors, for teachers, for evangelists. They haven't ceased. There's still an operation today and necessary for the success of today's church. So join with us as we dive into this episode of the Five-Fold Podcast. Welcome back to tonight's episode of the Five-Fold Podcast. I'm excited for tonight we are joined by our dear friend, no stranger to any of us, the good old Dr Joel Reveley. Greetings everyone. We are excited. We got a good show tonight. I really do think we got a good show tonight. We're going to talk about some things in the supernatural. Amen, the invisible.
Speaker 1:The invisible. I have a verse I want to start out with. I'm going to read to you Colossians 1 and verse number 15. It says talking about Jesus, who is the image of the invisible God. Yes, let's begin with this statement. There are things about God that are invisible, unseen, and we all comprehend that because we believe that we walk by faith and not by sight. That's right, but the application of that is rather interesting. First point I want to make is that that same word invisible in the Greek, it's Greek for the New Testament, it's alratos alratos in the Strong's Concordance. It's the same word invisible in Romans, chapter one, verse 20, for the invisible things of him, from the creation of the world, are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead. Now, how is that true? How is it that something is invisible but then they're clearly seen? Yeah, that's a mystery, isn't it? How is something invisible but clearly seen? The next verse I'm going to connect to this is in 1 Corinthians. I have to pull this up for you.
Speaker 1:1 Corinthians 2. We're just going to have Bible study on this podcast for about five minutes, if that's okay here on a Sunday afternoon. 1 Corinthians 2, verse 9, but, as it is written, I have not seen nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. That is the most misquoted, misunderstood verse in the entire New Testament. Because nobody reads the next verse. That's 1 Corinthians 2, 9. Now read the next verse. That's 1 Corinthians 2, verse 9. Now read the next verse, verse 10.
Speaker 1:But God hath revealed them what, what's the them? The things the eyes have not seen and the ears haven't heard and the heart hasn't, you know, comprehended. How has God revealed them unto us? He's revealed them unto us by His Spirit. The Holy Ghost reveals the invisible. Amen. With the eyes of faith, I feel the Holy Ghost right here in this podcast. With the eyes of faith, we are seeing the unseen. When you are filled with the Spirit of God, when the Holy Ghost dwells in you, you are touching things that you can't see with your eye and you can't hear with your ear. But you are receiving these things by that supernatural presence of God that now lives inside of you.
Speaker 2:You know that's one of them. Things too is a lot of people when they can't explain something, especially a lot of our brothers, you know, in other denominations. When you ask them to explain what their belief is, and when they start saying something and you ask them to show you, and they'll say well, you know, the Bible says great is the mystery of godliness. But they misinterpret that scripture, just like Romans two and nine. They misinterpret that scripture because if you read that scripture in Timothy, when Paul is speaking to Timothy, he says greatest mystery of godliness. But he goes on to tell us what that mystery is God was manifested in the flesh, manifested in the flesh, justified in the spirit. So it's one of those things where you have to go deeper than just what's on the surface. Right, you can't use it as an excuse because you can't explain what you believe or you can't explain what you see, you don't see it in your natural. So you say, well, it's just a mystery of God, god reveals it.
Speaker 1:There are ways to see the unseen. One minute aside here, let me tell you the physics of the unseen. For those of you who are not familiar with my testimony, I have a PhD in physics from the University of Michigan. I was a postdoctoral researcher at St Jude Children's Hospital in biophysics and God took me out of that life as a laboratory scientist into a full-time calling in the ministry. So, being a physicist myself, I have a PhD in physics. Let me give you the physics, the science of the unseen, pastor Weidman.
Speaker 1:Can I see x-rays Through an image? Through an image? Yes, I can't see them with these eyes, but there's ways of realizing their effects. Yes, you can see its effects on the world around it. Yes, can I see the Holy Ghost? Yes, but I can see its effects on the world around it. My bishop, who trained me in the ministry, bishop William Parent, in Auburn Hills, Michigan. He had a famous sermon where he preached. You know, I cannot see the wind, I can see its effects. I cannot see God, but I can see his effects, and that's the Holy Ghost, is moving right here in the podcast. We can see the effects of Almighty God, of the Holy Ghost, on the world around us.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, absolutely. That's the thing, though. You have cause and effect. Yeah, you have cause and effect, and you know gravity is a law. I obey the law. That's why I stay on the ground. You know that we have effects that we have to understand. There are things in our lives that we may not be able to see them, and it's the same thing with sin. You know. You may think it doesn't affect anything, you can't see the effects right away, but there are effects that come along with that action. There's a reaction.
Speaker 1:Consequences. I heard one psychologist child psychologist say that adulthood is the understanding of consequences. By that terminology there's a percentage of Christians that are still spiritual toddlers. There are still a percentage of Christians that are basically adolescents or pre-adults. Spiritual adulthood is the understanding of consequences. I want to go back to this idea of law, as you just mentioned. You just hit on perhaps one of the biggest arguments that I use for the existence of God. So, as a physicist, I see at the microscopic, the smallest subatomic scales and at the macroscopic scales of the universe and galaxies and superclusters, there are laws, there's order and there is understanding of what's going on in nature through those systems. When you see order and law and consistent application of those laws, I believe you see the hand of a creator, of a designer, at the smallest levels and at the largest macro levels you see order, structure and law. That's the hand of God.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, I believe that, I believe that and I agree with that Amen.
Speaker 1:Well, more on the supernatural here. On the last podcast, we touched on something one of my favorite hobby, horses. Why do angels in the Bible wear robes? Why, because everybody else did.
Speaker 2:Everyone wore robes.
Speaker 1:And so the Bible says men entertain angels unawares Unawares. So to those listening to this podcast who likely are saying, well, I've never seen an angel. Au contraire, you just might have but didn't realize what you were seeing. What if that person who helped you when your car broke down you never saw him again? What if nothing just happens in your life? What if happenstance doesn't exist? What if there is no such thing as coincidence for a Holy Ghost filled believer? What if you actually have had moments in your life where you entertained the company or conversation of what we would call an angel? Absolutely? So there's the robe thing. My other favorite hobby horse is why did angels have Hebrew names in the Old Testament?
Speaker 2:Everybody else did, because everybody had Hebrew names.
Speaker 1:And so if you encountered a guy on the street and he said his name is Joe or Steve in English, or if you're listening to this podcast in a translation, if you're in Argentina, or if you're in Spain and speaking Spanish, if you meet somebody named Jose or somebody named Ignacio, then what if sometimes, in certain moments of your life, god has sent a member of his kingdom to help you in a time of need?
Speaker 2:Absolutely, amen, absolutely, I, absolutely, you know, I believe that too. I believe everybody at one point in their life. The Bible says that nature testifies of God. Right, yes, nature itself, everything you see, everything we touch, everything we feel, it testifies of God. I've had this conversation with people and they ask the question well, what about somebody in a small village, on an island, somewhere that's never heard the gospel? I believe every individual on this earth at one point in their life will have the opportunity to meet God. It doesn't matter if somebody you know, we're so American, we think we've got to bring the message to them. Right, we think we've got to go to the other country and bring the message to them. I believe nature itself gives people the opportunity to To have an experience and to meet God. Yes, everything does, it, testifies to him. There's not one thing in this earth that does not testify of God. That's such an.
Speaker 1:American argument too, isn't it Like what, if I'm on an island, we have Americanized God? Yes, we have, and we're like, if somebody has not come and told me, I'm going to take this book right here, so we have one of these guys. So, like congratulations, the gospel message has arrived in a bookstore near you. You have access to this on your Kindle. On your phone you can read the Bible and I'm not trying to be a smart aleck here or something like that but I want you to see that the onus isn't just on somebody far away to come and talk to you. That's right. Will you begin to appreciate that God wants you to build an altar?
Speaker 1:Building of altars was an Abrahamic concept, but it was also a Mosaic concept. God told Moses in the book of Exodus every man had to build an altar of earth and in the New Testament, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. You know what, if I do something stupid, that is not my pastor's fault and all the pastors listening said hallelujah. There are moments in our lives where we've got to understand. We are going to begin our spiritual walk with the appreciation that we are adults and we have responsibility. Yes, I want to have integrity as a Christian, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Absolutely we have to. You know, and that's the thing too, and I've had this conversation with people as a pastor. Oh yeah, I've had somebody actually recently say you know, I've, I've questioned God because why would God allow these things to happen in my life? Yeah, and one of the one of the conversations. And I don't, I don't just, I'm not a mean person. You know, I'm not going to sit here conversations and I'm not a mean person. I'm not going to sit here and dog you and tell you but the conversation took a turn to the point where it was wait a second. You mean to tell me that all the choices that you've made and point out I can point out all these choices and say you don't think these have consequences. We blame God. God, why did you allow this to happen? Well, god didn't make you take that needle. God didn't make you go to the liquor store and buy that booze. You chose that, goodness.
Speaker 1:I was talking to a guy one time in a restaurant and he said I was walking downtown in this major city. I don't know what happened, but I looked up and now it's inside of a gentleman's club. Oh yeah, I don't know what happened.
Speaker 2:It just happened right. Of course it's a bunch of hooey. That man lied to me Absolutely. He probably GPSed, you know fastest route to you know hoochie mamas or something like that. Can I say that on that podcast? Yeah, you can tell that by the stuff that I say Hallelujah, that's okay.
Speaker 1:It's all my pastor's fault. That's, yeah, it's all your pastor's fault.
Speaker 2:It's always the pastor's fault, always. If he would have, just if he would have just kept tighter reins on you, that's a good one. Yes, yes, yes, and that's the thing. You know, the invisible things of God? There are and it goes both ways. There are things of God that are invisible, that have kept me, yes, have kept me whenever I didn't know it, and then later, god would reveal to me if I had done this, you, know if he had not stopped the bullet right, dodged bullets Right.
Speaker 2:And then there are things in my life that are for the positive that I can't see the effect of, and then there are things in my life that are in the negative that I can't see until later on. And then it's like if I would have, just if I would have just done that differently, you know, if I would have listened. Here's the thing the scripture says to seek ye first kingdom of God and and his righteousness, and these things shall be added Right. But most of the time what we do is we try it our way, and when that doesn't work out, then we go to God and we say God, fix this. And all along, if we'd have done it his way to begin with, it would have been a different story.
Speaker 1:We make God into this. Like the gumball machine, you put a quarter in, you get a gumball out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we've turned God into the celestial pizza boy. Goodness you know, we want it in 30 minutes and we want it hot.
Speaker 1:And if it's good, we'll give him a 10% tip. We also let me get back backtrack to the story you were telling about having this argument. God convicted me about this in recent years that we, the American church, are attempting to do something that Jesus never did. Jesus did not spend five years of his ministry on one person. That's truth. Jesus did not spend weeks trying to convince somebody who did not want to listen. In fact, he said the opposite cast not your pearls before swine.
Speaker 2:That's exactly right.
Speaker 1:There comes a moment where you're like you know what. Life's too short and I won't invest more of myself into this. Whatever the this is for you, it can be a person, it can be a time sink. It can be a wrong direction of your career. It can be a reroute of your ministry that God is asking you to do. Whoever's listening to this you know. Just receive whatever God is trying to direct you in here. Don't waste 20 years of your ministry or of your efforts on a conversation God is not calling you to. Absolutely, jesus would talk to someone and I heard I think it was Brother Stan Gleason talk about this in a seminar I heard him do years ago. He said Jesus would give one good offer of the kingdom and if that person refused, he'd quote a one-liner, give a Bible verse, turn around and he'd walk away.
Speaker 2:We should be more like Jesus. We should, we absolutely should, we absolutely should. And you know when we're talking about. We're talking about the invisible things of God, the ministry of Jesus on this earth. If we go through all of the ministry not to the Gentiles, not to the Pharisees, not to the unbelievers, but to his own disciples everything he taught them was in invisible speech. Right, and I say invisible speech In the other word we would use for it as parables, right, right. Figures and symbols, and metaphors.
Speaker 2:Jesus didn't come out and say this is what I want you to do. No, he presented them with the parable and it was their duty to understand it. And that's the thing Again, we've Americanized God so much that it's God's responsibility to make us understand. It's not God's responsibility to make me understand. It's my responsibility to study, to show myself approved, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly divided in the word of truth.
Speaker 1:That's a very elementary school understanding, like a sixth grade understanding. When I was in my college classes, I mean, it was my responsibility to study for the test. Yes, it is my responsibility to review the material, Amen. So my first science job was in the summer between my sophomore and junior years of college at the University of Memphis. I worked for Professor Mohamed Larraji in a biophysics computer lab. We were doing computer simulations.
Speaker 1:And so he says do you know the computer language called FORTRAN, which is short for formula translation, Fortran, computer language. And I said no, I don't know that computer language. And he said okay, your first job is to learn that language in your first few days and weeks of the job. And so I walk over to the McWhorter library on the U of M campus in Memphis, Tennessee, I check out a book on Fortran 77. My first five days on the job, I'm learning the Fortran computer language. So like I had to teach myself that language in the first five days, that was my responsibility. It's that, that effort, and I would also tie in um manliness no insult to the ladies listening in on this podcast, but I would. My definition of a man is the man is the one in the room. Who is not blaming somebody else?
Speaker 2:Amen, I agree, I agree.
Speaker 1:The one taking responsibility.
Speaker 2:You know, and this is something I brought this up a minute ago We'll wrap this up here in a second, but I think I heard Brother DJ's shoulders. I was listening to him. Oh, yeah, good guy this is where he brought in talking about creation. Man was created and then god took from man the rib and created a woman. Right um, when god took the rib and created woman, he took all feminine out of the masculine right there's no, there's no.
Speaker 2:We used to have this saying in america, like get in touch with your feminine side. There is no feminine side in me, you know.
Speaker 1:God took that all out of us.
Speaker 2:I'm 35 years old. I'm a young man, but in 35 years I've been on this earth, I've been a man.
Speaker 1:And I'm going to be a man for the rest of my life.
Speaker 2:There's no change in that God took all the woman out of me whenever he made Beth.
Speaker 1:Correctamundo. I heard one preacher a couple years ago preach God divided the light from the darkness In creation in Genesis 1,. You see divisions. God divided the land from the sea and the sky from the earth beneath it. Part of that continuation of dividing and separating was God divided and separated the man from the woman. These are two different genders, two different.
Speaker 2:Maybe here's something for our next episode. Should I, should, I, should I get into it?
Speaker 1:Go ahead, maybe, maybe that's something for him.
Speaker 2:A preview I heard a video and this has been something a lot recently and I don't know if you watched my couple episodes ago. My last podcast I brought in Progressive Christianity, oh man, and talked about some of that. Do we have three hours was talking about how the living Christ has spoken to him and given him a message for the church to stay away from the scriptures. That Christ talks to his people but it's not through an ancient book that's compiled and that contradicts itself. And there was another video that I watched that somebody was saying trying to bring up contradictions, and he talks about you know which time of creation did God create man? In Genesis one or Genesis two? Right, because there's two stories. It's the same narrative. Yeah, and this is that one thing.
Speaker 2:You know, when we did they fail a fourth grade? Yeah, absolutely, when we talk, there's a lot of times that I'll even ministering or just talking in conversation, I'll glance over something, I'll say something, I'll just I. I'll say something, I'll just I'll speed by it and then I'll go back and I'll be like, let me, let me dive a little deeper on this, and so I'll go back and I'll talk about the same thing, but I'll go deeper in it.
Speaker 1:They should read some of J Warner Wallace's works on cold case Christianity. When you're a detective, you hear different testimonies that are different perspectives of the same set of events. The gospels themselves are like that. This is like someone who failed fourth and fifth grade reading comprehension.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, absolutely and that's another argument they make is you know what did Jesus say on the cross? Because all four Gospels give different. You know what Jesus said. There's seven things altogether that Jesus said on the cross. What was the last thing he said? Right, they want them to be.
Speaker 1:Xerox copies.
Speaker 2:They want the.
Speaker 1:Gospels to be total Xerox copies. They're not. They're absolutely not. They're different perspectives on the same words and sets of events. They emphasize different words in those sentences.
Speaker 2:That's exactly right.
Speaker 1:Different parts speak to different people, and that still happens. As a preacher yes, it does I can preach a sermon and three different people will come up to me afterward and say, brother, that sermon changed my life. When you said da-da-da-da-da, somebody else will say I loved this point. Later on in the sermon, when you said this. And somebody else will say in your opening statements, you said blah, blah, blah. That was a confirmation of something I've been praying about and it's three different parts of the same message. It's the same message, same message, but three different segments were for three different people.
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely, and spoke to those individuals Absolutely. There'll be more to come, but for now we're going to wrap this up. Love you, guys. I appreciate you taking the time to listen.
Speaker 1:Join us next week for the Five Fold Podcast.
Speaker 2:Until then. Until then, hey, I want to say thank you for joining us tonight on the Five Fold Podcast. I pray that you've been blessed and that you have enjoyed what you have heard. Join us every week as we release new content concerning the Five Fold ministry and their place in today's church. You don't want to miss this the fivefold podcast. God bless. As darkness prevails around us, God is shining a light on the radio waves of mankind. A group of diverse individuals from all walks of life have come together to start Of God and Men, Of God and Men is a central hub for content creators sharing the hope of Jesus Christ in the form of a podcast for content creators sharing the hope of Jesus Christ in the form of a podcast. Pastors, evangelists, counselors, school teachers and emergency personnel have all come together to bring you a network of inspiration. Join us as we face all areas of life with the gospel of Jesus Christ.
