.jpg)
The Five-Fold Podcast
Five-Fold ministry for today. In this podcast we will attempt to determine biblical timelines as they correlate with current events. We will examine the offices of the Five-Fold ministry and gain biblical direction for the world today.
The Five-Fold Podcast
The Five-Fold Special interview with Joshua David Ministries
Joshua David Ministries YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@joshuadavidministries884
Join us on a profound journey with Cliff, also known as Altobelli or Alto, as we explore the vibrant legacy of the five-fold ministry that resonates through today's ever-changing spiritual landscape. A man of faith and law enforcement, Cliff's story takes us from the streets of Detroit to the heart of Putnam County, revealing how divine callings can emerge from life's unexpected turns. Together, we dissect the indispensable roles of prophets, apostles, evangelists, pastors, and teachers, celebrating their relevance and our collective efforts in ministry, marked by innovative video projects aimed at spreading the word. Cliff's narrative is a testament to the unexpected routes that lead to serving a higher purpose, and his voice adds depth to our understanding of the South's rich spiritual tapestry.
As we transcend from simple discipleship to the grandeur of apostleship, we confront the oft-misunderstood nature of these roles since ancient times. Apostles, we argue, did far more than pen scripture—they were the architects of the early Church, a truth we illuminate by diving into Ephesians chapter 4. Prophecy, too, persists beyond Revelation, guiding us through contemporary times. And then there's the Mount of Transfiguration—a pivotal moment that we dissect, discussing its implications for Jesus' messianic identity within the Jewish faith. Moses and Elijah's presence alongside Christ not only symbolizes the law and prophecy but also underscores the deep reverence held for these figures. As we reflect on these biblical pillars, we ponder whether the divine scribe might still be at work, chronicling Earth's monumental chapters as we look forward to the Second Coming.
What is happening? Everybody? Welcome back to tonight's episode of the Five-Fold Podcast. I am very excited I'm joined here with one of my best friends, brother Cliff, brother Altobelli, brother Alto my brother that's the main thing. My brother, what's happening? Man? He is actually one of the reasons why I joined law enforcement and I'm excited tonight to have him here. Enforcement, and I'm excited tonight to have him here.
Speaker 1:The five-fold podcast obviously, by the name you could tell that we like to deal with the five-fold ministry the prophets, the apostles, the pastors, teachers, evangelists and I believe that you and I both share the same opinion that they're still necessary. That God, that God, god's not finished with the office of the prophet, he's not finished with the apostles, the evangelists, the pastors and the teachers. You know 2024, everybody's okay with pastors, right, right, nobody. Nobody thinks there's apostles, nobody thinks there's prophets anymore. They think they're all ceased. And so I know that you, you still feel the same way I do. So that's one of the reasons why I wanted to bring you on, and I know that you, uh, you've been dealt with. The Lord has dealt with you in some of these areas as well. Um, so I'm excited. We're just gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna talk about everything we can tonight.
Speaker 2:That sounds good. I'm excited to be on here too. Thank you for inviting me. Uh, again, I'm, uh, Cliff Altabelli. Obviously I'm in uniform here, so I work for Putnam County, so I'm on the other side. I used to work for White County with this guy. We've done a lot of different ministry work together, a lot of different videos, a lot of different extracurricular ministry stuff the stuff that the people don't really like to do, or I should say the tough stuff. The fun stuff is what I call it. But yes, I'm excited to be on here.
Speaker 1:I'm excited to be with all you all too so, for those of you wondering why I keep looking this way, um, and maybe I should adjust my other camera, but uh, he's actually sitting right over here, so you know what? Uh, this is gonna be wild for a second. But you know what I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna change this around a little bit. I can't do it. I'm going to change this around a little bit. I can't do it. I got a cable that might be a little better. We'll do that. Anyways, at least now they can kind of see my face while I'm looking at you. But so we've.
Speaker 1:Actually I don't know if many of you know this he has got a YouTube channel. Is it Joshua David? Joshua David Ministries, and he actually recorded quite a few videos right here with my help. I was able, and blessed, I was blessed to be able to kind of run the camera and do some technical stuff for you. On the camera part, some of the greatest teachings I'm telling you. So go on YouTube. I'll look up your channel and I'll put a link in the description of this video for your YouTube channel. You check out his Revelation study, his Daniel study and all the other ministry videos that are just awesome. So I wanted you to take a minute and just introduce yourself in the ministry standpoint.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, first of all, I know he said it was a blessing. Guys, it was definitely a blessing for us or for me. Um, couldn't have done it without you. When we do that stuff, uh, and I don't think we're done, but I don't either. Definitely thank you for all, for all the stuff that you I tell you. You know, in the ministry I haven't even introduced myself, but in the ministry it's never a one-way street, it's always a two-way street, and with me and him it's always just been. I don't know, we just flow together. It's a God thing. Been one of my best friends since moving here from Detroit, so I might as well just dive into it now. So again, my name is Cliff Altabelli. I am originally from Detroit, born here in Cookville. So you know I'm, I guess, born here, so I'm half and half. That's why it's okay.
Speaker 1:That's why you're accepted Right.
Speaker 2:I moved back here in 2016. My mother is from the South, my dad's from Detroit, the North New York and all that stuff up there, and so I moved back down here in 2016. Lord called me really called me in 2014. That's when I really got received the true call into ministry. Took me a couple of years to kind of accept that and he had to definitely work on me, character flaws and all that kind of stuff because I was into a bunch of crazy stuff up there in Detroit. But anyways, come back down here. Great miracle for me to be down here in uniform doing ministry work. A lot of people say the same thing. I know you're. You've been doing this for a lot longer time than me. Never would have, in a million years, thought I'd be doing what I'm doing here. God is good, god is great. He completely transformed me. Without getting into too much detail, it's a different story for a different time. It's definitely a blessing being back, being here in the South. This is God's country, this is the Judah of the 12 tribes of Israel.
Speaker 2:I mean, I don't know if people realize that this is where it's at.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, absolutely. They call it the Bible Belt, but I think it's a lot more than just a belt. Yeah, it's a lot more. I think one of the coolest times that I can remember of you and I just kind of I think one of the coolest times that I can remember of you and I just kind of both of us kind of operating in the same spirit, is whenever we come into office. There I was at the commissioner and you said you know, I'm thinking about going to DC for this rally, and I was like you know what the Lord's been dealing with me about it too.
Speaker 2:And we were doing a recording. Yeah, we're like well, I think we're going to go.
Speaker 1:The Lord spoke to both of us in the same way and just said all right, it's time for you to go. And then that morning, when we had prayer in the hotel lobby and just took a minute, that was wonderful. It was so good, so good. So what is your stance on the fivefold and how important is?
Speaker 2:it for the church. You know, I say this all the time Most churches do not have a five-fold ministry and you would probably agree with that. I do, I do. There's been exclusions of. Well, let's just face it, a lot of the churches, a lot of the people, the saints, our brothers and sisters believe. A lot of them believe that these miracles and all that kind of stopped with Jesus and the disciples or a lot of that kind of whether it be spiritual warfare, healing the sick and all that kind of stuff, that just doesn't happen anymore. And obviously me and you both know that's not true, but I'll tell you.
Speaker 2:another thing is you know apostleship because that's one of the fivefold ministries and people don't understand. Once you are discipled, you know what the next step is To be an apostle.
Speaker 1:To be the sent one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so now you're not, and I guess, in a lot of ways, my ministry and what I deal with is taking the disciple, the elder not elder, a leader or somebody who's you can tell and changing them into a disciple, right, that's probably one of my main things, absolutely, it's a very difficult job and you probably have done this before. Yeah, because then you're messing with a lot of pride oh yeah, you're messing with a lot of ego and to break somebody down and to see it's difficult, but it's something that has to be done.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, and I think that's so. People get it mixed up and they say that, okay, the apostle, you know the 12 apostles, they were the only ones that are apostles. Because after that, you know Jesus himself and I've heard him say this Jesus himself has to call an apostle. You know, jesus himself called the 12. Well, then they throw out Paul by saying that because Jesus was already dead, jesus had already ascended when Paul was called. Now, granted, paul had the Damascus road experience and he was called by Jesus. All of us have been called by Jesus, you know. So that argument goes out the window with that. But another argument they have is the apostles' only job was to write the scripture. Well, that's not true. Not every apostle that Jesus called wrote Scripture. And not everybody's called to be a scribe, exactly. And no, we can't add to the Word. That's against Scripture. If you add to or take away, the same should be done to you. But the modern-day apostle builds, he helps others establish the Ephesians, chapter 4,. When Paul talks about the fivefold, the modern-day apostle builds, he helps others establish Ephesians, chapter 4,. When Paul talks about the fivefold, he says their purpose is for the edification of the church. Do the work of the ministry, to build them up from just being a disciple right a follower, to actually being the apostle or actually being the prophet, to actually do the work of the ministry.
Speaker 1:And sensationalists are a dime, a dozen. They're everywhere. You know prophecy expired, you know it's gone. And I had an argument with a guy online which is dumb. You shouldn't argue with people online because they're never going to learn, right? I did anyways, because he was saying that, because the book of Revelation has already been written, that prophecy is over with. There's no more prophecy. No, that's not what Scripture says. Yeah, paul says that these things shall cease, but he's talking about when we make it to heaven, when we actually get to that perfect place. These things shall cease. It's still important and I know you've had experience with the gift of prophecy. God still speaks to his people. If we'll listen, if we'll listen, yeah, if we'll listen, yep. And I think one of the biggest problems that modern church has and I think you'll agree with me is there's a lack of men standing up to be men and to say no, this is wrong. This is what God wants, not this.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, absolutely. You hit one thing on the head Anybody who's born again has had an experience with God. Yeah, absolutely. And our job, once they reach that, is obviously now you're a disciple, let's tune you in, let's get you tuned in to God, know the scriptures, experience what his voice is like, discernment and all that kind of stuff. And then, obviously, the next step, after you're discipled, you know that word in and out. You've done some ministry work, you've done some serving, done some other things. Now it's time for apostleship.
Speaker 2:Yes absolutely, I forgot what your last question was. Oh, I don't know. But I can tell you another thing, and I'll tell the people out there and you'll probably agree god, ever since he created earth, has always documented what has taken place on earth. Absolutely, right, yeah, this is the word of god basic instructions before leaving earth. Yeah, right, uh, he's always documented everything that has taken place. If you don't think that there's going to be people out there documenting the seven-year tribulation, the return of jesus christ, right, there are people who are going that god is going to call a scribe and say I need you to write some stuff because this is a pretty big event that might, might be used someday. Yeah, and I'm just saying, if you think, and that's a big, that's why I love you, pastor Weedon, my buddy Michael, we think outside the box.
Speaker 2:We don't put God in the box, because when you do that, you can't grow, you're confined to that little space, you know. And when you think out, oh wow, yeah, I guess you're right, when Jesus returns, you probably are, probably. People are going to write about that, yeah, and they're gonna. He's, you know.
Speaker 1:I'm just saying that's pretty big step of one thing that used to. It just just clicked in my mind when you were saying this. One thing that used to to to kind of be one of them questions in my mind is you think about what the scripture says? When that eastern sky splits, that everyone's going to see them, from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth. They're going to see what's happening when the two witnesses are in and is in jerusalem. The whole world is going to be broadcast to the whole world.
Speaker 1:And you know, 20 years ago, when I was reading this as a kid, I was like how is that going to happen? How is everybody going to see this? They're going to be in Jerusalem. But now you fast forward, when we've got these smartphones that I can this right here. What we're doing is a form of documentation, right, the fact that men are going to write down what happened, what is happening, is not only, I think, going to be on pen and paper, but I think it's going to be like this there's going to be documents, there's going to be documentation of things that are happening that everybody around the world is going to see through this form. This is a brand new form of ministry, if we know how to use it right, if we know how to properly divulge that information.
Speaker 2:Well, you've been to Israel multiple times. Oh, absolutely, I'm supposed to go back. Guys, I need some serious prayer. I don't know if it's going to come out before or after I'm there, but I'm supposed to go there in four days. Friday I'm leaving Friday going to New York, saturday going to Israel and obviously things aren't going so hot right now. But you've been there, I've been there. Yeah, you go to the wailing wall. Where's the camera?
Speaker 1:There's a camera.
Speaker 2:You can pull it up. Right now it's 24-7. I don't know if that's where the two prophets or the two witnesses are going to be, but it sure seems like that camera is there 24-7 for the entire world to see. That sure seems like they're going to be standing right. They very well could be at the wailing wall because you know, and I know, the jews don't go on the temple mount right absolutely because it's been desecrated by the muslims.
Speaker 2:I'm going to share this it's not been cleansed we'll share this with them yeah, I mean it's cool, you can 24 7. This is the camera. This is the camera. This is right now, right and what the prophecy says. All the world will see these two witnesses correct. I really think they're going to be standing. They probably very well could be standing in this courtyard, absolutely. And it even says I believe it says in the courtyard, I don't know if am I wrong.
Speaker 1:No, you're not wrong.
Speaker 2:I mean very well, because that's where all the Jews are.
Speaker 1:I really do believe they'll be standing right here and they'll be preaching the word. I really think so too. They're going to be calling fire down from heaven right here, and we're going to be able to see it.
Speaker 2:And a lot of people think they're going to be here, but when you think about it, there's the camera 24-7 in the courtyard where they are called to. Who? The Jews? Yes, yes, and the only people who are going to believe, or the only people that the Jews are going to believe, is who?
Speaker 1:Moses and most likely Elijah I mean, that's what we're thinking. Was it you and me who was talking about that a couple days ago? I don't remember if it was us talking about it, we've talked about it before.
Speaker 2:We have the big four right Moses, elijah Enoch and John the Baptist.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but then again you think John the Baptist, those are the four that people are saying those are the four.
Speaker 1:That people are saying hey, well, that's probably one of the two witnesses are going to be one of those four guys. So Jesus confirmed John the Baptist was the spirit of Elijah. Yeah, you know, because he quoted Malachi, right? He said because the very first chapter, or very first verse of Malachi, chapter three, talks about Elijah, the spirit of Elijah that will come and prepare the way for the Lord. And he says the Lord, whom you seek, will suddenly come to his temple. You know, and that's that's an amazing thing within itself, that's a whole sermon within itself that we could all preach.
Speaker 1:But Jesus himself said yes, this is the spirit of Elijah, and you think about it at the end of the, at the end before just, which I say at the end, and we all look at that as like, oh, that's a long time away. But I think it's a lot closer than a lot of us really think. You and I both know the Lord's really been dealing with us and I know a lot of people around the world that he's been dealing with it. It's like get your house in order. Yeah, absolutely, because things are coming to a head quickly. Absolutely, I do believe that it's Moses and Elijah.
Speaker 1:I, I do believe that it's Moses and Elijah.
Speaker 2:I really do, honestly believe by the miracles that they do. If you guys go back and read the miracles that they perform, it kind of gives you it's the same thing that Elijah and Moses had the power or authority to do. And another thing, and I don't know if you ever thought about this and I felt like the Lord kind of brought this on me just a couple months ago. Number one these are Jews going to the jews, yes, and I know enoch because he didn't die.
Speaker 2:He was raptured or taken up, or taken away, or ponzo whatever you want to say, yeah uh, but enoch's not a jew, I never thought of that enoch's a gentile. I never thought of that neither did I, and I felt the lord's like enoch's, not not a Jew.
Speaker 1:That just honestly, that just kind of builds up my belief, wow.
Speaker 2:And he's like Enoch is for the Gentiles. Well, I never thought about that either. I'm like, oh wow, that really you're right. Wow, because the Jewish nation wasn't born until Abraham. Right, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Enoch's a Gentile. Abraham was a Gentile right.
Speaker 2:Until the covenant so. I never thought about that. I know it's in the line of Jesus, but he wasn't a Jew, and you think about this?
Speaker 1:who was with Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration?
Speaker 2:so it's not the first time. Moses and Elijah, that's a huge one, you know, yeah.
Speaker 1:So you look at the mountain of transfiguration. You have the disciples who love to sleep right there with jesus. They wake up and all of a sudden, oh what is this? You know it's. It's jesus being transformed, transfigurated, and then you've got moses and elijah. And that's amazing to me, because jesus is the living word. Right. John 1 and 1 calls him the word. Right. Moses represents the written word, the law, and then Elijah is the spoken word. So you have the living word, the written word and the spoken word all wrapped up in one place.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, you're right, I mean so I do too. Some people will say not. I think when you really look at the scripture breakdown, it's them too, and the Jews are not. Uh, I think when you really look at the scripture break it down, it's them too, and the jews are. Who are they going to believe moses number one, absolutely come on, I mean, that's to them.
Speaker 1:He is the besides the messiah yeah, moses is number one, absolutely, and god the father, of course yeah, right, but but still.
Speaker 2:Then the next is elijah they, because they even called jesus elijah. Yeah, yeah, I mean so they elijah's on their Mount Rushmore.
Speaker 1:But you've got to think too, because what did—where was I going with this? It just left my head. It must not have been that important. Praise God, it'll come back. What was Moses to them? The mouthpiece of God, right, the mouthpiece of God. And that was through demonstration, not just the words that he spoke, but—.
